Dear readers, if you are a regular visitor of this blog, perhaps you still remember my post titled "If One Why Different" (posted on 1 September 2008). In that post, I wrote about how I heard badly debate of religions among my friends when we gathered together, that is, each person seeks to maintain his own opinion namely his religion is the most relevant in this century. Within that post you may also read my thoughts as the response to them, as well as readers comment, and I would like to rewrite my thoughts as below:
Humans have existed far before any religions emerge on this earth. The universe has existed far before the humans and religions. And... God, only one God, has existed far before the universe, humans, and any religions. Who is the owner of my soul, your soul and the soul of all creatures in this world? Only one or many? If only one, then why must we be different.
Please readers do not feel confused with the question "why we must different" because I mean are "why must feel very special" or resistance against others because of religion, skin color or race. Based on the thoughts above, then with the curious feeling on 19 January 2009 I opened a discussion on Blogcatalog network (now as an internet archives) to get various wider reactions. My goals for this discussion is trying to raise the awareness of brotherhood among human and attempt to encourage each person for unite as a human race. I am glad that this discussion has got comments and reaction from people with various background of religion / belief. There are Christian, Islam, Buddhist, Hindu, Taoism, and even Atheism. As I read from their comment, part of them were able to accept this idea and partly still resistance. Indeed an interesting discussion to know of what in each people mind towards this idea.
I must say nothing is wrong by being different like an analogy of a garden which is not beautiful if there is only one kind of flower. It become uncomfortable (problem) if we deliberately creates differences, or underestimate to others, because a negative behavior will produce another negative behavior as opposite to yours. The more you are consider the differences and feel resistance to others then the more you feel lonely and only live with your own community.
Finally I only know that Almighty God has been called with various names, that is "God" in English, "Tuhan" in Indonesian, "Shangdi" / 上帝 in Chinese, "Allah" in Arabic, "Dio" in Italian, "Dieu" in French, "Бог" in Russian, etc. I think, a lot of name to refer to Almighty God. How with you? How you think to promote fraternity, understanding, peace, and love. I am asking a honest answers from your heart, not from a diplomatic statement when in front of public.
Pak Tikno, debating about religion is never ending coz each persons thought that he says the most correct thing. God never minds about how human praises Him, why should we bother about how the other humans do?
ReplyDeleteVicky - I think you have not catch the point of this post and I doubt that you have not read overall. It does not matter how the way you praises Him. That is NOT the problem.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is as you say yourself at above, that is: ".... if each persons thought that he says the most correct thing".
From my heart? Without grandstanding for the public and being diplomatic? Simple. Stop considering your own religion as the only true religion and all else as wrong. Accept that the goal is one and the paths to it are many. Live and let live.
ReplyDeletei am special to Him, and Him always special in my heart, but all off the world and human got special attention too from Him, so why we different, The difference is about how to maintain our belief, other with blaming other groups... that makes his group so badly i thinks...
ReplyDeleteRummuser - Oh ... indeed, I am amazed that you are a wise man, as I read from your posts especially titled "Religion/Spirituality".
ReplyDeleteSuryaden - Yes, badly I think.
This is a subject we actually discuss every day.
ReplyDeleteBosnae - Welcome from Bosnia.
ReplyDeleteAwareness is needed because there are still conflicts in the Middle East, Ireland, Bosnia, or other conflicts that deliberately involving religious in order to get broader effect.
I hope to each person would like to promote awareness with this thoughts, because I think from the grass root is the effective ways.
I wish, this will become the universal thoughts to raise the awareness. Would you like to help me?
I tend to totally agree with Rummuser: "Stop considering your own religion as the only true religion and all else as wrong".
ReplyDeleteIt's a viable program for liberal minded believers who can strike a peaceful co-existence deal. On the tolerant- intolerant scale they are at the left.
By contrast their adversaries score at the intolerant side. That's why I'm pretty pessimistic about the ultimate outcome of this wisdom in as long as orthodoxy and fundamentalism will exist. Which is: forever.
Because the Rummuser-wisdom is exactly the opposite of most religion's quintessence; by divine revelation at least each specific monotheistic religion claims to hold the eternal and exclusive truths. And it's believers - Christians and Muslims alike- have a duty to turn the unfortunate non-believers and other-believers, into believers too.
Let's pray for wisdom.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteA' is for Allah, nothing but Allah;
ReplyDeleteBa is the beginning of Bismillah;
Ta is for Taqwa, bewaring of Allah;
and Tha is for Thawab, a reward;
Ja is for Janna, the Garden of Paradise;
Ha is for Hajj, the blessed pilgrimage;
Kha is for Khaatem, the seal of the prophethood given to the Prophet, Muhammed (SAW);
Da is for Deen, Al-Islam, religion with Allah since time began;
Dha is for dhikr, remembering Allah;
and Ra is for the month of Ramadhan, ohh Ramadhan;
Za is for Zakat to pure our greed, when we give our money to those in need;
Sa is for Salamu alaikum, peace be with you wa'alaikum assalam;
Sha is for shams, the shining sun, which Allah placed for everyone;
and Sua is for salat, for when we pray facing him, everyday, facing him, till we meet our
lord;
Allah there's only one God and Muhammed is his Messenger. Allah, La ilaha illa'allah;
Dua is for duha, the morning light, the sun has turned from red to white;
Tua is for tareeq, the path to walk upon;
and Dhua is for dhil, a shadow;
and Aa is for ilm, the thing to know, to make our knowledge grow, in Islam;
Gha is for ghaib, a world unseen and that we know is not a dream;
Fa is for, the Opening, Al-Fatiha;
and Qua for the Qur'an, the book of God;
and Ka is for kalima, a word we're taught to teach us what is good and what is not;
and La is for the beginning of La ilaha illa'allah;
Ma is for the Messenger Muhammed-ur-Rasoolillah. La ilaha illa'allah, Muhammed-ur-
Rasulilllah;
Allah, there's only one God and Muhammed is his Messenger. Allah, la ilaha illa'allah;
Na is for nawm, the sleep God gave to give us rest after the day;
Ha is for the Hijra, the journey that, the Prophet made;
and Wa for wudu before we pray to help us wash our sins away;
and Ya for Yawm-mid-Deen;
Allah, there's only one God and Muhammed is his Messenger. Allah, La ilaha illa'allah;
Allah, there's only one God and Jesus was his Messenger. Allah, La ilaha illa'allah;
Allah, there's only one God and Moses was his Messenger. Allah, La ilaha illa'allah;
Allah, there's only one God and Abraham was his Messenger. Allah, La ilaha illa'allah;
Allah, there's only one God and Noah was his Messenger. Allah, La ilaha illa'allah;
Allah, there's only one God and he created Adam, and we are the children of Adam. Allah,
La ilaha illa'allah;
Allah, there's only one God and Muhammed is his Messenger. Allah, La ilaha illa'allah.
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ReplyDeleteEnglish its not my native tongue, sorry for the several mistake, But the lenguage its not the dificult to talk, and to say congratulations for your formidable site. We dont follow to visit periodicaly.
just how to say in spanish revolutionary words "La Lucha Sigue... Compañero"
I think the idea on 'the most correct teaching, dogma etc...' is natural to exist in religions. On the other hand, it is very unnatural to find that a religion teaches the correctness of other religions. (If all religions are considered correct why should there be religions instead of a religion??)
ReplyDeleteBut that part of teaching should be directed inward not otherwise. If you direct it outward and worse it is fueled by fanaticism it could clash with others' and that would make troubles spark!
For me, the appropriate way is to be confident with what you believe and try to respect what others believe! :)
Hi Tikno, thank you for sharing your thoughts here.
ReplyDeleteI really don 't feel special, but I am blessed by God and for all He has given me. Best of all He gave me the free gift of salvation through Christ. I don 't have to perform empty religious rituals and indulge in good works to ensure eternal life. I have eternal life becasue Christ died for me on the cross.
I feel very much a part of the entire human race and not superior in any way. We are all the creation of one God.
But I don 't believe that all religions lead us to God. Truth is only one, it is absolute.
Either there is one true God or none at all.
Although the moral and ethical teachings of all religions are almost the same their concept of God, man, sin, salvation, heaven and the next life are opposing to each other. God cannot divide Himself like this and reveal Himself in such conflicting ways.
We have to find the one true God.
One has to verify one 's faith.
Christianity can be verified on the anvil of
history
science
philosophy
logic
spirituality
and transformed lives.
It is not a man made religion.
It is a way of life.
I want to add that I respect each individual 's beleif and want peace and harmony among all human beings.
ReplyDeleteI only condemn the strife, bigotry and terrorism and oppression wich exsists in the name of religion.
Colson - The key is education. How to educate the next generation with a correct understanding (good insight) of religion. Start from our own family and educate as much as possible person who have good insight - rather than not at all.
ReplyDeleteRetazosdememoriahistorica - Welcome from Spain, and thank you for your comment.
Yari NK - Being confident is good as long as also respect to other belief. The goal of this post is to raise the awareness of brotherhood among human and attempt to encourage each person for unite as a human race.
Amrita - I really glad that you said : "I really don't feel special". That is the key!
I am NOT debating on which religions is true because I respect all religions.
You'll getting surprise if I tell you that in Vaishnavite Hinduism we belief even Our Lord Krishna would cheat us and remain hidden from us, though we never cease in worshiping and chanting His Holy Name! How? If you aren't a true Prapanna-Vaishnava or surrendered devotee soul. You aren't a Prapanna at all if you have these five ideas:
ReplyDelete1. Identifying yourself with mind and body complex, thus denigrate your True Self as spirit-soul and living just for bodily pleasure all in all.
2. Realize your True Self but refuse to accept anything greater than you could be exist, thus denigrate your eternal relationship with Krishna (God). As long as you think you are the master, then Our Lord wouldn't disturb you.
3. Accepting God, but you still maintain an idea just for getting more material and heavenly pleasure from whom you worship. Though you chant Krishna's name, worship Him, and pray to Him, but your object wasn't The Real Krishna. Lord Krishna will put some imperfect souls, yet more powerful than yourself, as your worshipable deity. Most of them are very envious and jealous demigods! Sometime they could fulfill your prayers, but simultaneously bring you more distanced from The Real Lord Krishna and true salvation.
4. Take Lord Krishna as your supreme master, but still sheltered under various means to attain Him. You have an idea that The Supreme Lord will come as your only property, by your own virtue. "No one have the Real God but me!" or "Krishna is only mine!" Then internally you denied His unlimited Love and Compassion, and also His supreme independence!
5. Take the path of surrender (Prapatthi-yoga) and devotional loving service (bhakti-yoga) but put your own happiness as the ultimate goal. You are hankering for attainment of the state of supreme bliss for your own sake.
So if we embraced Vaishnavite-Hinduism, but still maintain these 5 ideas internally, then you are not a Prapanna-Vaishnava at all. No actual Lord Krishna were there for you! Thus what we learn to put in our religious thoughts and activities.
I'm sorry for the long words. Thank you, kept unified in Divine Love. His love is for all, even to them who didn't take Him at all.
excellent article. well done. like your philanthropy.
ReplyDeleteDasanrangarajan - I'm amazed to you last sentence: "His love is for all, even to them who didn't take Him at all". Thank you for this wisdom. I will always remember it and keep aware to accept and love differences.
ReplyDelete------------------------
Saeed Shiekh - Thank you. Welcome from Pakistan.
wah kernn nih
ReplyDeleteSorry dear, I beg to differ. God was created by a cunning person Plato about 2500 years back to deceive the humanity and establish his psychological rule over it in the name of this phantom God. He is still successful.
ReplyDeleteEven then, I am following your blog to keep on discussing.
Ram Bansal - First of all, you do not need to say sorry, because I respect difference opinion. Your comment was impressive to me, and perhaps, for other readers.
ReplyDeleteHow do you really believe to your statement. Can you prove it? At least by sharing a link to (if any) a literature that reinforces your statement. Because your statement is very controversial and possibly will produce a strict reactions. I hope you realize it.
Are you following Theosophy doctrine?
Hi, Im from Melbourne Australia.
ReplyDeletePlease check out this Illuminasted Understanding of Acausal God.
www.adidam.org/teaching/aletheon/truth-god.aspx
www.dabase.org/dht7.htm
www.realgod.org
www.dabase.org/realgod.htm
Anonymous - Thank you for let me knows this website. I've visit them and found a lot of very good things there. This add my insight.
ReplyDelete"God was created by a cunning person Plato about 2500 years back to deceive the humanity and establish his psychological rule over it in the name of this phantom God." Really?
ReplyDelete2500 years back, that's mean about 500BCE. Plato, the creator of phantom God idea was lived 427—347 BCE. But the civilization of Magadha was 684 BCE,historically founded by the Haryanka Dynasty. It was predate Mahavira of Jainism and The Gautam Buddha.Bimbisara (543-493 BCE ) and then his son Ajatashatru (ruled 491-461 BCE)were devout followers of The Buddha.
Now Buddha was said as a reformer for degraded practice of Vedic religion of his time. That's mean Vedic tradition was prevailed long before Gautam Buddha until it degraded enough and need to be reformed or protested by The Buddha.
The conception of God was there in the earliest part of Rigveda such as Purusha-sukta. The historian said Rigveda was from 6000 BCE. Wow!
We got, indeed a very wonderful person. According to the passage above, then Plato wasn't only created the concept of God or phantom God (whatever...) He was the very person who had created THE TIME MACHINE!!!
So, Plato (427—347 BCE)rode on a time machine, went back to 6000 BCE, then appeared in front of the Vedic Rishis and taught them about GOD.
This is a very valuable info for all of us. Thank you for this knowledge of tens of years of deep learning...
That's why my grandpa said "We know a person, as soon as he opened his mouth"
I beg you apologize for the harsh words. But that's just what the history said. Science is harsh but spirituality is soft. No need for any religious source to be cited here.Since God is just a phantom idea of Plato who had discovered a time machine....
Dasanrangarajan - I do not know how our friend Ram Bansal can explains the phenomenon of this TIME MACHINE.
ReplyDelete@Dasanrangarajan,
ReplyDeletePlato might have been from 427 to 347 BCE, which comes out to be about 2400 years back which I mentioned about 2500 years back. I stand corrected for that. I don't yet know how the time in BCE has been obtained by the historians.
Regarding age of Vedic literature, their time is controversial. Secondly, their Indian language translations are incorrect because of their basis of modern Sanskrut word meanings which was non-existent at that time.
Vedic Sanskrut, which is the language of Vedic literature still need full research. But as indicated by Shree Aurobindo, the language has similarity of terminology with Greek and Latin languages, which indicates there is a close linkage of languages and time of the Vedic literature with Latin and Greek languages. In this light, Vedic literature need retranslation after due research.
"God was created by a cunning person Plato about 2500 years back to deceive the humanity and establish his psychological rule over it in the name of this phantom God."
ReplyDeleteI'm not talking about date of the Vedas. My comment was for the above passage. We accept either Gautam Buddha is historical person or Indian Government's and other archeologists are fools. Gautam Buddha pre-dated Plato and Vedic civilization with God conception as we found in the Vedas pre-dated even Gautam Buddha. Since The Buddha criticized the God concept prevalent in Vedic society of his time. You may read the Pali Canons of Theravada such as Dhammapada, Kevaddha Sutta, etc. on subject of God. They directed as an answer to personal god concept of the Brahmins at that time. Buddhist non theistic concept was a correction for peoples' believes or let we say an alternative for theological view on Buddha's time.
Let stay a part from saying belief or disbelief on God is right or wrong. Let we set aside the Vedas are real or false and let their date stay in mystery. But the reality is, archeologically proven, Plato wasn't the cunning deceiver as our dear Bansaljee had said. This is the logical explanation,nothing to do with the authority of Vedas or any other scriptures.
Hi Tikno,
ReplyDeleteYou are right that human beings were born before there were any religion therefore actually there should not be significant differences between followers of each religion.
H. Nizam - The important point is how our awareness towards differences. Wishing you help me to promote this matter.
ReplyDeleteMy apology for delayed respond because I just back home from vacation.
Hallo tikno: Some excellent discussion here and I am glad you left a link on my site. I agree that the difference in religion is man made and set in motion often for political reasons. Before the big religions came along the early animist and pagan religions and others had wars fought over them too. The need for humans to search for a meaning to their existence seems to be fundamental to their make-up and unfortunately this understanding seems to become so much a part of their identity that it is precious and they protect it jealously. Perhaps with better international commmunications the universality of religion and the acceptance of a god, or none, may become less a matter of conflict and more, as I believe it should be, a matter of common understandings.
ReplyDeleteHello Duckham,
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for your comment. Hopefully more people realize that actually we are brothers.
If you study history, you will see endless suffering down through the centuries caused in the name of religion. That's because religion is man made - similar to political parties or attitudes.
ReplyDeleteI am a Christian - but I am not religious. I believe in Christ, his life, and the truth he brought to this world. It's this belief that has changed my life and given it direction and purpose in a world that has lost it's way largely due to the teachings of religion.
Christ did not command any dogmatic system or practice of law - he simply asked that we believe in him and love one another.
Debating religion will always lead to conflict and turmoil.
Religion is oppressive, but believing and following Christ gives freedom.
Chad Prigmore - I agree with you that "Debating religion will always lead to conflict and turmoil."
ReplyDeleteThe problem is on its fanatic follower. :)
Very thought provoking post. I feel that the objective of all the religions is to connect with the source of our well being i.e. the God. Each religion was started as a way to get connected to the source. All ways are right and work towards this end so it is a personal choice which way we choose. The founding fathers of these religions never had any division in their mind and be it Christ or Mohammad saheb they were highly evolved spiritual beings who showed a way in the times when people were not connected to divinity. Their followers, however, rather than using their ways to enhance their own connection with divine started condemning ways of other people following other religions. People who are not truly connected to the spirit of their own religion are the only ones who will find fault with religious beliefs of others. I think the only solution is to rise to a real good level spiritually following your own religion that can make a person tolerant towards others. If you are not true to your own religion you cannot be a tolerant person as all religions teach tolerance. The problem is with the followers who follow their own religion halfheartedly.
ReplyDeletePratishtha, I agree with you "...The problem is with the followers who follow their own religion halfheartedly."
ReplyDeleteYou give a very good insight and I admire you.
A good article, but let me refocus it a little. Religions assume the need of an organized, orthodox body of people, an institution that need to tell you, tell us what to think, how to think, how to live and how to die. I firmly believe the opposite! I am a deeply spiritual person but I oppose religion as such. I have nothing against religious persons who strive and struggle.
ReplyDeleteAndras Nagy, I also believe the opposite. Our soul and mind could be said an institution for religion. Like the meaning of "Christianity" is not a church building, but the group of people who believe in God in their mind.
ReplyDeleteGood comment. Thank you!
What you have discussed is one positive way of looking at it. However there are problems in every society where religion can play a major positive role.
ReplyDeleteBut first a simple definition of Religion: “The rules framed by religion, to be followed by individuals and societies, so that the individual and the societies can grow and have FAITH in the Almighty”.
It is important for Religious leaders and persons to make sure that this tool, i.e., religion is used for sorting out problems of societies, also for spreading love and care, and to remove hate and suspicion. And towards that end I am making efforts in my blog AGNI PARIKSHA OF SITA, url: http://awara32.blogspot.com/,..
Regards
Kulbhushan Singhal
Kulbhushan Singhal,
ReplyDeleteI like your simple definition of religion and thank you for an interesting comment.
According to you, what is the problems in every society where religion can play a major positive role.
I have visited here on your invitation Tikno. It's interesting how many views there are, including historical perspectives, highly religious views, and even anti-religious views. But your vision is to transcend all that. One idea I see consistently (here and elsewhere) is that "so much evil is done in the name of religion," followed by the conclusion that religion in general isn't "true." But religions are ways of life. They bind like-minded people together and help members of a group identify with each other. Evil doesn't come from this, in my opinion. Evil comes when people use religion as a reason to hate, distrust and discriminate against others -- and that is usually not the fault of the religion itself, but rather those who interpret or re-interpret the various scriptures to hold one group against another. Whether a religion is "true" or not is irrelevant. It's not a matter of truth or falsehood. Religion is meant to speak to the spiritual side of human beings, to bring out the best in us. Where it has been twisted to other purposes, there is the evil.
ReplyDeleteSo, my friend, if we will all strive to find the good core of whatever religion(s) we have (including people who claim none, for that too is a spiritual position), and if we will refuse to believe interpretations that separate people, then we will have more peace love and understanding. That is your message, I can see, and I agree with it. If there is a God, a deity, a universal being, then we are not here to fight each other but to find the being. And if there is no such being, then fighting among ourselves is even more ridiculous.
Peace to you, Tikno, and to everyone here.
@ GTChristie,
ReplyDeleteThank you very much for your comment.
Did you believe in one God?
Yes, religion is problematic for the reasons that Tikno and many others have expressed here. But I go a step further. Religions are based upon the concept of needing to pay homage to a God – the god that the religion has defined in the religion’s doctrine. So I say that it is the very concept of God to begin with that is the problem. The erroneous concepts include things like attributing human characteristics and emotions to the god. And all hell breaks loose from there.
ReplyDeleteA more pure form of spirituality sees that referred to as God, as Consciousness. It is said that Consciousness is the “ground of being”. So in that sense, Universal Consciousness is the foundation of all that exists. It is the One Mind, Infinite Mind, the Absolute. Everything emanates from Universal Consciousness.
Each of us is an individual and unique expression of the One Mind. There is no need for subservience to or for adoration or worship of the One, for the Whole appreciates its expressions as much as any of the expressions appreciate all that the Whole comprises. Without its expressions, the Whole cannot experience itself.
But we as the expressions are on our individual journeys of the evolution of consciousness. And at stages of that evolutional journey, we are blind and unaware and feel the need to worship a “Creator”, who we erroneously imagine demands it. Universal Consciousness does not have emotions, and certainly not the fragile and insane human ego.
Well, Anonymous... it seems you want to say that God is the human consciousness itself. Feel like you believe in God but half hearted.
ReplyDeleteRays